Welcome to OnyxTalk - Global Support Community, please Login or Create an account to get full access to the forums.
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Using the i-one to measure difference between print and spot color

Offline Andy D Posted 11-12-2015 - 01:05 PM
Post: #1
Member
7 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
11.1.2.103
Printer(s):
Anapurna, Jeti

Hey all, I'm brand new to this forum but I have been using onyx for several years
& pretty good at setting up profiles and such.

My problem is that when doing printing for corporations, they will often have
solid backgrounds that will have to match a PMS color or their hard-copy as close as possible.

I'm good at color correcting by eye, but would like to know what is the best
method to use the i-one to measure difference between my print and
their PMS/Spot color?

I have been using my Onyx 11 - rip queue's - swatch book - LAB - measure patch,
to measure both my print and the desired color, and then use the CMYK # it gives me to adjust the color via Production house editor - color replacement tool. I have been having mixed results.

Is there a better method to do this within onyx or another program I should be using?

Thanks
Back to top Find Quote
Offline Mikulas Posted 11-13-2015 - 07:21 AM
Post: #2
Banned
55 Posts
Banned

Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

Why is this method not good for you ?
...
The "optimal" method for PMS is to have an high-quality ICC profile. In the MediaManager/Profiling, right after generating the ICC, you can generate Pantone Spot replacement table. But this only works with vector data with correct color naming.

For pixel data it is nice to have the library of Pantone Solids for color replacement - exact Lab values instead of i1 reading.
From my experience - achievable (with good accuracy) is maybe 90-95% of Pantone Solids. The rest always has some hue/lightness problem caused by gamut mapping algorithms of the ICC profile. (average customer most likely accepts dE caused by saturation)

The ultimate way then is... print out the whole PMS library with the most common media+settings, compare them one-by-one, and do own fine-tuned CMYK replacement library.
Yes, it´s a lot of work. Sad
Back to top Find Quote
Offline Andy D Posted 11-13-2015 - 07:40 AM
Post: #3
Member
7 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
11.1.2.103
Printer(s):
Anapurna, Jeti

It's more of looking for a better way. Sometime I will add a add more of a color, say cyan for example, and in the next i-one print reading it will show less cyan... & I know there is a relationship between yellow and cyan, more or less of one affects the other,
but still it gets really wonkie sometimes.

When I do a color reading via the queue, I have to choose a profile first, I'm thinking this may be affecting my results. Is there a way to do a straight reading with no profile effecting results?
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2015 07:57 AM by Andy D.)
Back to top Find Quote
Offline Mikulas Posted 11-13-2015 - 07:34 PM
Post: #4
Banned
55 Posts
Banned

Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

Absolutely no. Spectrometer is giving spectral info which can be transformed to XYZ or to Lab coordinates with one default settings (observer, illuminant, status etc). This is what RIP has after spot reading.

CMYK has no such easy transformation. It´s always based on ICC profile´s lookup table, and therefore totally dependent on ICC profile. And dependent on rendering intent too. I.e. after spot reading RIP has one Lab value, but you can have 4-5 different CMYK values for every ICC profile.
...
Why after adding cyan to the printed color you get less cyan in i1 reading? 100 different reasons. Some of them: drying time, consistent reading (backing, mechanical force on device, specks), software settings (media profile, rendering intent, spectro-settings), printer quality and health,...
Back to top Find Quote
Offline MarkPrints Posted 11-17-2015 - 07:50 PM
Post: #5
Member
9 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
Thrive 12
Printer(s):
Arizona250GT,JV5320DS,EpsonFS7100/F7200,SP540V

MIght be worth looking at

Rip Queue/Setup/Rip Configuration/Configure RIP

there is a check box for spotrenderintent and a value of 0-4

you can read about the values on the Onyx help page

I find whenever we do an upgrade or reinstall this value reverts, has caught me out a couple times

I find checking it and setting to perceptual works best for us but you might have different result
Back to top Find Quote
Offline virtu Posted 11-19-2015 - 02:36 AM
Post: #6
Frequent Flyer
127 Posts
Frequent Flyer

Onyx Version:
10.2.5
Printer(s):
Spuhl virtu RS-35, Canon ipf9100, HP5000, RS-640

perceptual for spot colours makes no sense. i use absolute colormetric to hit spotcolours.
Back to top Find Quote
Offline Mikulas Posted 11-20-2015 - 05:55 AM
Post: #7
Banned
55 Posts
Banned

Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

+1
Perceptual should normally be the worst option here. But the reality is not always straightforward. Grin
It depends on how precise the profile is, and how good the media is.
For media with lot of OBA absolute colorimetric is hard to use especially for light colors... For media with lack of deep black (matte media) dark Pantones are gamut-mapped in very strange ways... etc.
Back to top Find Quote
Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-24-2015 - 08:19 PM
Post: #8
Member
55 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

Perhaps the those PMS you been looking for some are in gamut and some are out, thats why the mix result.

will using Swatchbook if the library doesn't give correct result, pretty much hit or near.

cheers
Back to top Find Quote
Offline Mikulas Posted 12-02-2015 - 05:27 PM
Post: #9
Banned
55 Posts
Banned

Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

+1 for printing some kind of own Swatch-book !!!!

Definitely the easiest way how the get the best Pantone-CMYK match.
The bets habit is to create some kind of Lab space-based swatch-book with regular and reasonably small hue stepping.

Eye-matching has the wonderful advantage of evaluating the graphical aim. Replacing Pantone color with CMYK sometimes needs exact hue, sometimes more density, sometimes more saturation, etc.
Back to top Find Quote


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Custom spot colors? llgmai 11 6,139 01-23-2012 03:17 PM
Last Post: Nishan
  Spot Color Charts Checked in quickset drs6222 6 3,421 11-15-2011 07:18 AM
Last Post: virtu
  how to print cmyk color in 12 color printer runningqiang 2 3,263 08-09-2011 03:56 AM
Last Post: runningqiang
  Spot Color Replacement and Color Management PageOne 5 6,672 02-08-2009 03:27 PM
Last Post: PageOne
  Spot Colour oss_flatbed 5 3,321 09-02-2008 02:44 PM
Last Post: Douglas


User(s) browsing this thread
1 Guest(s)
myRepono - Website & mySQL Database Backup Service
Community software by MyBB