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Trouble printing Gray

Offline fiusousa Posted 06-26-2009 - 04:19 AM
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Onyx Version:

Printer(s):


Running Onxy Postershop with Colorspan 72 UVR.

The problem is we print a lot of graphics that have gray in them and the gray always has a green cast to it. I have tried all the profiles in ONYX and non of them work that well. Is there anything we can try to sovle this? Thanks.
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Offline jonkovach Posted 06-26-2009 - 08:54 AM
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320 Posts
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Onyx Version:
X11
Printer(s):
HP z6100, Mimaki JV33-160, HP Latex 370

Have you created a custom profile based on your printer/media setup? It sounds like your neutrality is off.

He who limps is still walking.
~Stanislaw J. Lec

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Offline Hotspur Posted 06-27-2009 - 01:45 PM
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Onyx Version:
To Infinity & Beyond
Printer(s):
HPZ Latex UV Mutoh Canon Summa

Green looking prints are often a sign that the profile is not using an icc, even if there is one present.

Sometimes during the importation process, the icc part of the profile forgets to set itself as the default icc & thus is not used.

Before delving too deeply into your colour management take a look & check this hasn't happened.

In Media Manager, look at your profile library. Select the offending media profile and drill down until you see the actual icc and see if it has a green tick.

It should have. If it doesn't it means it is not selected & your media profile is printing without an icc, often giving a green cast.

To fix, right click on your icc and "set as default" and give it another go with a fresh file.
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Offline fiusousa Posted 07-02-2009 - 05:04 AM
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There is a green check nex to the ICC and it is set as the default.

I have not created a custom profile. How would you go about creating a profile or checking the neutrality?

Thanks for your help.
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Offline jonkovach Posted 07-02-2009 - 08:18 AM
Post: #5
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320 Posts
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Onyx Version:
X11
Printer(s):
HP z6100, Mimaki JV33-160, HP Latex 370

You have to go through the profiling process in ProductionHouse. Through Media Manager, create a new media, and follow the steps. It's fairly easy to go through, but difficult to get your settings spot on. Thus, this message forum.

But I gotta believe that if you haven't done that yet.... that is why your grays are off. Not that mine are exactly neutral, but they sure aren't bad.

He who limps is still walking.
~Stanislaw J. Lec

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Offline virtu Posted 07-02-2009 - 09:22 AM
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Onyx Version:
10.2.5
Printer(s):
Spuhl virtu RS-35, Canon ipf9100, HP5000, RS-640

Hello,

Sounds like you need to create a media and do the profiling procedure step by step, you need something like i1pro to measure your swatches of course.

Alternative to that you could do following if you only print BW:

-Convert your image in Photoshop to grayscale
-In onyx you have to turn off input profiles.

Then you will only use black ink to print. The result may be better then what you print at the moment (not too green).

But if you use just a default media without creating linearization, then the print will always need a lot of correction in Photoshop or with onyx filters.

virtu
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Offline jonkovach Posted 07-02-2009 - 10:59 AM
Post: #7
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320 Posts
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Onyx Version:
X11
Printer(s):
HP z6100, Mimaki JV33-160, HP Latex 370

The only thing about turning off your input profiles and printing with black only is that the resolution will be a bit more grainy than using all four, or six or eight, colors, as it is now using black to create the shading as opposed to all colors. I have a customer that requires us to do that, and when they put B&W images in their files they always complain about the graininess. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

He who limps is still walking.
~Stanislaw J. Lec

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Offline bellevuefineart Posted 07-09-2009 - 11:08 AM
Post: #8
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27 Posts
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Onyx Version:
7.3
Printer(s):
Epson 9800

I see this a lot, especially with clients doing black and white prints. Many have a green cast. The problem is that there isn't really a true black and white - black is always built with color, so B&W will often have a green tint, or blue, or magenta.

I've just gotten used to the black and white prints that my regular clients bring me, and I have photoshop actions setup just for their work that brings their files in line with my printers. Black and White, I often say, is the most difficult color to produce.

As an ad-hoc method, either in photoshop, or in Onyx preflight, adjust your magenta-green about 3% to the magenta. I've found that to be the sweet spot for me.
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Offline boelarsen Posted 07-29-2009 - 10:46 AM
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7 Posts
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Onyx Version:
X10
Printer(s):
GS-6000, Roland XC540, Mutoh Viper TX, Fuji Acuity

I have exactly the same problem. When I'm printing directly from Photoshop, my B/W prints looks fine - neutral grey. But when i print through Onyx on the same printer (Epson 11880) the prints come out green.
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Offline signpoint Posted 07-29-2009 - 03:22 PM
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If you dont have the equipment ask someone that know how to do it.

If you have diluted inks put them down to like 40-50 % of the dark levels and create a new substrate profil and then create a new ICC based on this linearistation and its setting. Care should be taken when doing the ICC and find the right settings for depening on material. If you saying a green tone appears you have to much Cyan involved some where. Most likely in the ICC.

Also check which input profiles you have in your RIP and wich profile that are embedded in the picture your are printing. Make sure that you have the right selected in the RIP or check the box of use embedded profile. Using filter could create a mess later on when re-printing ect.

Ambient light, more to say the light in the room where you check visually the printed result will affect the colors to appear wrong if its wrong according to the light temp setted in the iCC profile . It is important that you have the same light temperature. If unsure go outside at noon and check then you have a hint of where you are.

I am not saying that this would solve your issue, I am just sharing my thought ! Smiley
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 04-20-2011 - 03:04 AM
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Onyx Version:
ALL
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ALL

Roky,

could please stop commenting with this vague and confusing comments? I've got a strong feeling you have no clue what you're talking about and your posts do not add anything to the threads, besides from looking like spam they are in no way related to what people are doing here.

Or does anyone has a wide format printer with drums here? ;-) Please me know and I'll book a ticket and come to see it ;-)

Marco



(04-19-2011 07:24 AM)rokymiller Wrote:  Keep in mind that the image transfer is a process in three parts on this printer, primary, secondary and tertiary. In the first stage of the Yellow and Magenta is transferred to an upper drum and cyan and black is transferred to a lower drum.
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Offline Henry Posted 04-20-2011 - 07:03 AM
Post: #12
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57 Posts
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Onyx Version:
7.3.2
Printer(s):
Seiko ColorPainter H-74s

(04-20-2011 03:04 AM)MarcoRoos Wrote:  Or does anyone has a wide format printer with drums here? ;-) Please me know and I'll book a ticket and come to see it ;-)

Marco

Well,....... yes we do have a largeformat printer with drums!!!

Only they are in the attic, were the son of my bosss is playing DRUMSSmiley

Cheers!!

Henry
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 04-20-2011 - 07:07 AM
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Onyx Version:
ALL
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LOL!

Are you trying to take the p*** out of me or what? ;-)

I am just trying to protect our fragily community :-)

Ciao!
Marco



(04-20-2011 07:03 AM)Henry Wrote:  
(04-20-2011 03:04 AM)MarcoRoos Wrote:  Or does anyone has a wide format printer with drums here? ;-) Please me know and I'll book a ticket and come to see it ;-)

Marco

Well,....... yes we do have a largeformat printer with drums!!!

Only they are in the attic, were the son of my bosss is playing DRUMSSmiley

Cheers!!

Henry
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Offline KB Posted 12-06-2011 - 04:09 PM
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2 Posts
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Onyx Version:
7.3 / 10.1
Printer(s):
Pred8tor / Jeti

Printing Neutral Gray's & B & W photos using Onyx,

Here's a trick that works for me, TURN OFF CM profiles, and feed the RIP a file that has heavy GCR pre applied to it, let the image and content be accepted as is, rather than introduce a colour transforms.

Take a grayscale image, copy it and paste it into ALL 4 channels of a new CMYK PS file, Don't' freak out if/when your preview of all channels looks way too dark and muddy brown! It Should,

Then go into curves and drop the midtones from 50% to 40%, to lighten it up at bit, then in curves take 100% of the Cyan down to 50% then do the same for the Mag & yellow, except drop them to 40% leave the Black alone.

Now you have a file that is predominantly printing in Black, backed up with the gray balanced support of CMY, this helps provide the image with a density boost and maintains neutrality even if/when you experience nozzle drop outs during a long big ass run.

RIP and Print with ICC profiles turned off! it's a no brainer when you think about it, - KB
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Offline virtu Posted 12-08-2011 - 11:11 AM
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Onyx Version:
10.2.5
Printer(s):
Spuhl virtu RS-35, Canon ipf9100, HP5000, RS-640

KB,

Why would you do that if you can simply convert your greyscale image to a strong GCR based profile like

coated_FOGRA39_GCR_bas.icc

for example. So you convert your greyscale image to coated_FOGRA39_GCR_bas.icc and then turn off input Profiles in Onyx. That workflow is not as good as when you create YOUR OWN ICC profile, but the image that you print will use mostly black ink and it wont go green or red.

virtu.
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Offline KB Posted 12-08-2011 - 05:41 PM
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Onyx Version:
7.3 / 10.1
Printer(s):
Pred8tor / Jeti

Good Point virtu!
I'll try that back in prepress, end game is GCR,

Thx -KB
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 12-08-2011 - 09:27 PM
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ALL
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ALL

(12-08-2011 05:41 PM)KB Wrote:  Good Point virtu!
I'll try that back in prepress, end game is GCR,

Thx -KB

I might have missed it, but why don't you create an ICC in ONYX with a MaxK setting and a black start of zero?

You can even edit an existing profile, if it was created with ONYX Profiler: in media manager right click the profile, select Edit and change the GCR settings and click Build.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2011 09:31 PM by MarcoRoos.)
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Offline Henry Posted 12-08-2011 - 11:33 PM
Post: #18
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57 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
7.3.2
Printer(s):
Seiko ColorPainter H-74s

[/quote]

I might have missed it, but why don't you create an ICC in ONYX with a MaxK setting and a black start of zero?

You can even edit an existing profile, if it was created with ONYX Profiler: in media manager right click the profile, select Edit and change the GCR settings and click Build.
[/quote]

Our saviour!Smiley

That should do the trick.

We have had issues with grey too, but for some time ago we have had someone
Who made some profiles for us, we have a Seiko H74s colorpainter which has
lightgrey, grey and black. But no profile we had took advantage of that fact!!
So he created a neutral grey profile for us, i think in the same way Marco stated!

ps, Changing GCR settings is only available in Productionhouse? we only have Postershop.

Cheers,

Henry
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2011 11:36 PM by Henry.)
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 12-15-2011 - 02:39 AM
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Onyx Version:
ALL
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ALL


I might have missed it, but why don't you create an ICC in ONYX with a MaxK setting and a black start of zero?

You can even edit an existing profile, if it was created with ONYX Profiler: in media manager right click the profile, select Edit and change the GCR settings and click Build.
[/quote]

Our saviour!Smiley

That should do the trick.

We have had issues with grey too, but for some time ago we have had someone
Who made some profiles for us, we have a Seiko H74s colorpainter which has
lightgrey, grey and black. But no profile we had took advantage of that fact!!
So he created a neutral grey profile for us, i think in the same way Marco stated!

ps, Changing GCR settings is only available in Productionhouse? we only have Postershop.

Cheers,

Henry


[/quote]

You are right, it is only possible in ProductionHouse.
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