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ICC - improving colour.

Offline Pauly Posted 11-19-2015 - 10:41 PM
Post: #1
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

A little update,

Media is still Starfire Glass (clear glass, not green)

Green tint in blacks - pretty much gone

Reds? Slightly better, not great though.
I took a sample piece to a clients showroom to put it against their glass piece they have with the same print.
At the moment, my reds are more towards the brown and not as deep. the more dense reds become brown and the lighter reds are more orange.

Upgrading to X12 allows me to use chromaboost to get some of the reds i need, but not helping with the deep reds. Matter of fact any deep colours aren't the best. I printed the colour wheels off with the ICC on and ICC off. in the middle it's really muddy with the ICC on. That's all i really had time for today, I'll get some photos monday,

I'll be doing more testing monday but at the moment, with the "all ICC off" it looks so much better. Even with this setting off, it still changes depending what profile i'm using.

We have a temp solution at the moment by adjusting the sliders to add more colour and my client adjusts his photo and it comes out near enough. Obviously cannot keep doing this.

I haven't been doing much to it at the moment, machine is at full load, but holidays are coming up so i'll have time.

Any advice is appreciated, I don't expect a simple solution.
I know the printer and software is capable, as the sample i saw was done on an older machine with x10 or x11
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2015 10:56 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline Mikulas Posted 11-20-2015 - 06:21 AM
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Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

I printed the colour wheels off with the ICC on and ICC off. in the middle it's really muddy with the ICC on.

If you are completely satisfied with non ICC colors then it is only the question of profiles.
There is still hope for you... Grin

Your media-ink combination is a "wild one". I bet you have one of these problems:
- spectro is giving you systematically wrong readings because it cannot handle the glass properly
- your media has very atypical gamut shape - ICC generating engine is trying to "compensate" for weak white point or weak black, and moving whole gamut up or down.

As I wrote you - ask your colleagues to export the ICC from Onyx and send it to me. I will probably not solve your problem, but I can find the "biggest mistakes".
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-20-2015 - 07:29 AM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

I will try with the non ICC colours with a sample and see how it goes on monday.

but the colour wheel with the icc on didn't look as it should.


Yes the spectro gives me wrong readings, more darker than what it really is. Weirdly, the print still comes out the same or close to when i did the coated paper profile (which still has a muddy red, but better than the horrid oem ones. i didn't spend time on it as it's not something i use.) It's what the icc engine does to it after the readings is the issue. (3 different engines.. onyx/barbieri/xrite and 3 different looking profiles barbieri looking like the nicer one at the moment but with no options)

I used the Oce profiling guide to do the icc which basically tells me to start blacks around 40 and use the "enhance" setting.
I did notice using the "enhance" setting gives me a muddy red, compared to classic and vivid.
The start blacks didn't change much when playing with it, i did find a sweet spot for that though.

The ink limiting is fine, i have to do a double strike to get the amount i need. the spectro limits the ink exactly where it should, and is quite linear after i do the calibration.



After i look more into it and spend a day or so doing some management with it, i'll send you some files. After comparing samples to the original, i know now what i'm looking at (it was hard to understand what the client was telling me with out seeing for my self) I'll also send the spec/lab files.



There is something somewhere i've missed or didn't do correctly. because i know the equipment is more than capable of doing what i need.

Note i've already had someone come out and make a profile for me, using the same equipment, ran into issues also.
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Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-24-2015 - 07:11 PM
Post: #4
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55 Posts
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Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

I'm used to be a ICC profile fans, but now I'm not anymore. Below are only my opinions:

1) forget about the ICC profile all together, print with gray balance and ink limit only.
2) If your glass sample thicker than 3mm, you will have difficulty on getting accurate reading on LFP, presume your chart are printed under the glass and reading from above.

Get a copy of Curve3 to help out, instead of investing in something not going to work out, in your case.

the down side is, you will only able to work with cmyk file only.

cheers
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Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-24-2015 - 08:30 PM
Post: #5
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55 Posts
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Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

I suggest you give the "Stable Gray" a try when you generating icc in onyx.

cheers
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Offline janA Posted 11-24-2015 - 11:33 PM
Post: #6
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Onyx Version:
7.3.2
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona

Did you try this options as well?
For the ICC build option:
Gamut mapping: Vivid Color, ChromaBoost
Enable balance CMY.

When printing:
Using AdobeRGB input profile for RGB.
The CMYK input profile will depend on what the standard is at your location (e.g. fogra39 is used in Europe).

Try both the combination relative colormetric+black point compensation as rendering intent.
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-25-2015 - 02:12 PM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

JanA,

I've used all 4 options on the pull down, vivid, enhanced ect. and i've tried multiple chroma boost settings. (higher the number, the lighter the darker reds went.

I usually use the embedded profile, but i have tried things like you've stated.

Walter,

Yesterday i was playing with my ink restrictions as i thought this could be the issue, although i dont have much options to choose from, just one which is the maximum (so not much help) i made them all absolute and linear and put in similar values as what has been read. And my reds now are a lot better. At the moment it's temporary as it darkens most other colours too, ie blues ect. But i'm getting somewhere with it.
So i'm thinking when reading the ink limits, it pulls them back to much.
I have a multi dot setting on onyx for the arizona which works by setting values for dot size but need to do it by eye. once i find the maximum ink volume i need per channel i should be on the right path.

I use 6mm glass but funny you mention it, i was thinking about using 3mm on the way to work this morning, and i may try get some before everyone shuts shop for Christmas break. (3-4 weeks)

I will have a look at the software, thanks.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2015 02:44 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-25-2015 - 06:43 PM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

further investigating, I made a new print mode using my latest ink restriction settings. Did the calibration, printed a new icc chart and read it though the barbieri software and imported the lab files though onyx. Did a test print and back to square 1.

I know i skipped the calibration when i did the other profile that's got the better reds. So i think onyx for some reason is pulling back to much ink which is getting muddy reds.

Also the image in job editor looks nothing alike the final print. So i don't think it's the ICC. I think it has to do with ink restrictions and limits.
We don't do ink limits on flat beds as they're generally good on the test prints. so we skip the step.
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Offline Mikulas Posted 11-26-2015 - 05:28 AM
Post: #9
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Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

Oooh oohh. A LOT of missunderstanding in this thread !!!

When printing:
Using AdobeRGB input profile for RGB.
The CMYK input profile will depend on what the standard is at your location (e.g. fogra39 is used in Europe).

Grin
One should always use the profile in which data was created. Using AdobeRGB instead of sRGB is cheating... but yes, it works - Adobe has much more vividly defined primaries.
CMYK - one should always use the proper profile (embeded), not local profile. If you get "over-the-ocean" data you are not using local profiles, do you ? Smiley
But yes - as default Onyx is set to use American profiles. Quick ICC settings like All profiles ON do not warn if file has no embedded profile. They simply use the american ICC. (at least X10 version)

So i think onyx for some reason is pulling back to much ink which is getting muddy reds.
Onyx advanced ink limiting in facts allows you to get the best (most applicable ink) !
It allows maximum values for every ink combination - so that secondaries (red, blue, green) and all saturated dark colors are not limited by one common total ink limit.

Also the image in job editor looks nothing alike the final print. So i don't think it's the ICC.
This is the very best proof that IT IS some ICC profile problem!!! ;)What you see on the screen is what ICC profile is telling to ONYX about the color. If it is dissimilar, then ICC has received wrong info about the color - aka bad spectro readings... (or you have some display ICC problem)

...forget about the ICC profile all together, print with gray balance and ink limit only...
Yes, it is hell difficult to get in-house profiles with quality similar to generic profiles Sad so this non-colormanaged approach is a reasonable help. But it is valid ONLY if:
- your primaries are quite similar to some standard
- your media behavior is similar to that standard too
I do not believe the second can be true with glass...

I use 6mm glass but funny you mention it, i was thinking about using 3mm on the way to work this morning, and i may try get some before everyone shuts shop for Christmas break. (3-4 weeks)

Pauly, this one killed me ! Are you really profiling thru a 6mm glass ???!!! Eek!Confused
What are we discussing here then ? Eek! In such case you have TOTALLY WRONG readings!
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2015 05:32 AM by Mikulas.)
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-26-2015 - 02:10 PM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

(11-26-2015 05:28 AM)Mikulas Wrote:  Oooh oohh. A LOT of missunderstanding in this thread !!!

When printing:
Using AdobeRGB input profile for RGB.
The CMYK input profile will depend on what the standard is at your location (e.g. fogra39 is used in Europe).

Grin
One should always use the profile in which data was created. Using AdobeRGB instead of sRGB is cheating... but yes, it works - Adobe has much more vividly defined primaries.
CMYK - one should always use the proper profile (embeded), not local profile. If you get "over-the-ocean" data you are not using local profiles, do you ? Smiley
But yes - as default Onyx is set to use American profiles. Quick ICC settings like All profiles ON do not warn if file has no embedded profile. They simply use the american ICC. (at least X10 version)

So i think onyx for some reason is pulling back to much ink which is getting muddy reds.
Onyx advanced ink limiting in facts allows you to get the best (most applicable ink) !
It allows maximum values for every ink combination - so that secondaries (red, blue, green) and all saturated dark colors are not limited by one common total ink limit.

Also the image in job editor looks nothing alike the final print. So i don't think it's the ICC.
This is the very best proof that IT IS some ICC profile problem!!! ;)What you see on the screen is what ICC profile is telling to ONYX about the color. If it is dissimilar, then ICC has received wrong info about the color - aka bad spectro readings... (or you have some display ICC problem)

...forget about the ICC profile all together, print with gray balance and ink limit only...
Yes, it is hell difficult to get in-house profiles with quality similar to generic profiles Sad so this non-colormanaged approach is a reasonable help. But it is valid ONLY if:
- your primaries are quite similar to some standard
- your media behavior is similar to that standard too
I do not believe the second can be true with glass...

I use 6mm glass but funny you mention it, i was thinking about using 3mm on the way to work this morning, and i may try get some before everyone shuts shop for Christmas break. (3-4 weeks)

Pauly, this one killed me ! Are you really profiling thru a 6mm glass ???!!! Eek!Confused
What are we discussing here then ? Eek! In such case you have TOTALLY WRONG readings!

Profiling though 6mm glass and .2mm clear film both have the same output.
There's really no way else to get the correct reflection from the white after it's backed onto the glass.
I will be doing 3mm glass when i order some pieces.

When i open a file though onyx, especially reds, it comes out orange in the lighter areas and brown in the darker areas. compare it to photoshop on the same screen and it's way off. (I tried taking a photo, but didn't make justice) Most other colours are fine. all the blues are good, greens ect.

When i did my own ink restrictions, skipped calibration and used same came icc, The print is much closer to what it should look.

This happens on most media, not just glass. I don't use other medias as often. Glass every day though.

This is basically what i used as a guide.

https://dgs.oce.com/PrinterSupport/Arizo...ofiles.pdf

I'll make a new fresh media and print mode. I'll upload my readings and icc once finished.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2015 03:36 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-26-2015 - 07:12 PM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

Here's a drop box link of my readings and ICC.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbjotm7e6zf2r8...r.rar?dl=0

Media is coated paper.
If it helps, my printer ink configuration is WWKCCMMY
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2015 07:13 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-27-2015 - 05:12 AM
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Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

May I suggest you tweak the N-Factor, default are 2.0, I recommend 4.0 to compensate the loss of ink density due to light diffusion, after this proceed to ink limit, as high as possible, last.. icc profile.

After giving it a deep thought, my best guess is N-Factor pulling color back.

Cheer for me if this help you ^^
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-27-2015 - 06:01 AM
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Onyx Version:
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Will definitely try this Monday.
Although how do you tweak the N-Factor? I haven't came across this yet. unless i've missed it?
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Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-27-2015 - 05:45 PM
Post: #14
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Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

after "Read Swatch"

1. Customize Target Densities for Calibration - select "Advanced" button,
2. "Tweak Linearization" pop up,
3. under "Desired Target" tab, select "+" button,
4. "New Target Densities" pop up,
5. give it a name, select "basic density curves" and set 4.0 on the NFactor, press OK,
6. back to "Tweak Linearization", select "Build" button
7. proceed to ink limit & icc profile

Cheers^^
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-29-2015 - 03:39 PM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
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Oce Arizona 480XT

Walter,

Thanks for that, The ICC chart looks richer, but the overall result is still the same.

It seems as no matter how much i jack up the ink, after the ICC it's back to square 1.
If i use a 3rd party ICC after having the Nfactor at 4, it's better and closer to what i want. (but the profile wasn't built on the current ink restrictions)

So i think i've narrowed it down to the ICC pulling ink back.

I might try one of the linearisation charts and see if it does anything.



no changes.

I'm quite stumped at the moment.
Nfactor played a good roll,
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2015 05:02 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-29-2015 - 06:16 PM
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Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

Ha ha.. no beer for me.. but don't give up yet.

from images in your previous post, to me, it looks like Black ink "starvation",

1) before proceed, ensure the max black ink near or lower at L=15.0 (LAB value).

2) Ink limit, like it or not, avoid setting lower than 3.0 on all channel, even it looks illogical at first, ofcoz, provided no curing issue.
- use "Ink Restriction Verification Swatch" and study the 2nd column patches, the transition of any colors should not show gray-shade in between. (MediaManager/Swatches)

3) Icc parameters, increase the value in "Chromatic Black Generation", in other word, just choose the preset "No Light Inks", don't discourage by the horrifying straight line, it does good to me, so will you.

4) Leave "Total Ink Limit" at 400, it is a beautiful number, don't touch it.

Last, your printed patches size, use bigger size, 6x6mm minimum, 8x8mm best.

I want my beer, please.
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-29-2015 - 08:18 PM
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Onyx Version:
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Oce Arizona 480XT

1) before proceed, ensure the max black ink near or lower at L=15.0 (LAB value).
it's at 12. (11.9)

2) Ink limit, like it or not, avoid setting lower than 3.0 on all channel, even it looks illogical at first, ofcoz, provided no curing issue.
- use "Ink Restriction Verification Swatch" and study the 2nd column patches, the transition of any colors should not show gray-shade in between. (MediaManager/Swatches)
ink restrictions are great, always are with uv cured inks.

3) Icc parameters, increase the value in "Chromatic Black Generation", in other word, just choose the preset "No Light Inks", don't discourage by the horrifying straight line, it does good to me, so will you.
I have played with these settings a lot, it's never changed the colour much. but helps the deeper blacks.
But i did try and still the same.
Also did with a GCR+ on 50 (with all no light inks) and gave me a slightly darker blacks area almost like more contrast.

4) Leave "Total Ink Limit" at 400, it is a beautiful number, don't touch it.
never moves from 400 Smiley

Last, your printed patches size, use bigger size, 6x6mm minimum, 8x8mm best.

they are 10mm x 10mm

You get a cold one for helping Smiley

I'm still quite stumped. I also did my calibration on the advance mode )G7 P2P target. This gave me an even better ICC table with more deeper colours. but same thing, the ICC pulls it back.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2015 08:19 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline walter_cfl Posted 11-30-2015 - 12:13 AM
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Onyx Version:
X11, X12
Printer(s):
Latex, UV, LED-UV

Stone cold...

sorry, can't help much this way, unless I mind control you to do as what I have in mind, LOL

since old printer and software could do a better job, I guess some of the parameters are incorrect, dissect the old media profile might give you some clue.

guess I'll have my beer alone.
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-30-2015 - 01:43 AM
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Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

Appreciate the help as always.

I have no idea why it's doing this. My profiles are better than the original ones. for some reason it's only the reds aren't represented correctly.

I have a few profiles i use, one for reds, one for b&w and another for the rest.

I'll need to contact canon and pick their brains. could even just be a driver issue? who knows.


What if i sent you all my readings (ink restrictions, cal & icc) and you put it though your x12 and put some settings though and make an icc. then send it to me and see what i get?
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2015 01:56 AM by Pauly.)
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Offline Mikulas Posted 11-30-2015 - 08:51 AM
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Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

Hi Pauly.
I have checked your data with some of my "magic" XLS tables and PM5.
My first observations:
a/ you have a WONDERFULLY BIG gamut... or you have bad readings from Barbieri (too vivid) ... Eek!

b/ if a/ is true then you have not a single reason to push channels to more density ! According to what I see - your C,M and Y are more vivid than ISO Coated v2 - WOW! But also much more density Sad The same with deep black - no need to go deeper.

c/ As I supposed - gamut mapping of your ICC profile makes the bad job ! For some reason 100/100 red from ISO Coated v2 CMYK is rendered to 1/76/88/0 with absolute rendering intent!!! ConfusedConfused With other rendering intents it is even worse... This is definitelly STRANGE !!! Eek!

Give me some days to study. As the first step I would say - try the PosterColor rendering intent in Onyx. I cannot check this one in PM5, because it´s Onyx own stuff. But it should be able to do the smaller-to-larger gamut mapping better (smaller ISO Coated gamut to your bigger one). You do not need to print it - just take some CMYK scale file with embeded ICC and look what is does with 0/100/100/0 red - it should land somewhere 0-10/90-100/90-100/0-10. (and maybe check also pure cyan, magenta, yellow, green and blue).
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Offline Mikulas Posted 11-30-2015 - 12:52 PM
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Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

OK, additional analysis

Your readings from Onyx have 994 patches - normally that is far enough to get nice smooth clean profiles (not totally "color accurate").
But...
  • you have either 1/ erratic linearisation or 2/ erratic ICC readings - I see some "ugly" curves in my XLS graphs. Even if using Barbieri - always do multiple reading+averaging. On paper with good average measuring 2 readings are usually OK, but with glass ... I would suggest 3 or even more!!!
    Note - linearisation is even more sensitive - also do at least 3-4 reading+averaging, and use the Onyx curve-smoothing!
  • If your readings are OK, your primaries have VERY high density !
    0/0/0/100 is showing L=10,3 in Lab Eek! - this is normally more than HQ deep black !!! (ISOCoated has L=16)
    The same with C,M,Y...
  • Most of your blues are darker than single black and deep black - this is not healthy !!!
    Look at the Lab values (L-Lightness):
    - 100/100/0/0 ...... 7,1 / 31 / -44
    - 100/100/0/50 ..... 4,7 / 12 / -20 - darkest color !!!
    - 100/100/0/75 .... 5,7 / 6 / -8
    - 100/100/0/100 ... 9,3 / 4 / -4
    - 0 / 0 / 0 / 100 .... 10,3 / 0 / 0


My bank account number is: ........ Grin
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-30-2015 - 02:21 PM
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Onyx Version:
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Oce Arizona 480XT

Thanks for having a look at it,

I believe the big gamut & densities are the ink characteristics, They go quite a lot darker than my pantone CMYK reference.

Thanks for all the tips, I will try the things you've asked and report back.

I only do 1 reading with the barbieri. I've been told a few times that my device takes multiple readings and averages them out before outputting a number.

I only use 944 patches, it's more than enough for my printer, as we don't replicate 100% of colours, Most of the artwork that comes in is quite vivid and contrasty. But when reds aren't reds, it's not a good thing.

Once i work out what's going on i will probably do a couple of medias in the larger patches.

It's weird, no matter what i do before the ICC, the final output is 99% the same with what ever i've done. (which is a good thing in a way but not the right way!!) I am re downloading thrive from their website and installing it again just to make sure it's fine.

I appreciate all your help!! I'll report back a little later.
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-30-2015 - 03:28 PM
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Onyx Version:
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Oce Arizona 480XT

here are the results from the CMYK+red swatches i put though the rip with the profile you're looking at.

Standard ..................PosterColour
R - 1/86/95/0.........R - 0/77/81/0
C - 86/0/5/0 ..........C - 79/0/6/0
M - 0/93/14/0 .......M - 0.5/84/5/0
Y - 0/3/92/0 ..........Y - 0/1/90/0
K - 67/61/83/58.... K - 71/65/81/30
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2015 03:29 PM by Pauly.)
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Offline Mikulas Posted 11-30-2015 - 04:36 PM
Post: #24
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Onyx Version:
10.2
Printer(s):
L26500, W8400+Onyx / Mimaki JV4, JV5 +TexPrint

OK, the PosterColor rendering intent obviously does not help. Maybe later.
As I wrote - I´m not able to check it. Sad

To the linearisation - I would not touch the N-factor. As it is now - you have wonderfully straight primaries !!! Smiley
Just check the measured linearisation curves - if they are smooth everything is fine.

And that means - your ICC data was measured with some erratic values. Sad Sad

Probably Barbieri is doing a good job, maybe your samples were not perfect (dirt, curing, glass defects). Sorry to say, but I have found problems already in the CMYK primaries !



And back to ICC and gamut...
I believe the big gamut & densities are the ink characteristics, They go quite a lot darker than my pantone CMYK reference.

OK, I´m sorry, I´m really not good in explaining complicated things...
What I wanted to say is... hmmm... not finding the right words.... it really is quite complex...
(a lot of text deleted here... Sad)

What I wanted to say is - the best way if printing :
- RGB to CMYK .... is having a nice big gamut (to cover most possible colors)
- CMYK to CMYK .... is having a slightly bigger than standard CMYK gamut (to get all colors in)
but also follow the shape of the standard CMYK to get nice smooth CMYK-CMYK projection !!!

Your gamut shape is far from standard - that makes the things VERY complicated.
Primaries going to max are unstable and too dark - chroma and/or black are of no additional gain.
Check values below - having such dark C and M and K is counterproductive !!!
Colors are not "evolving" anymore. In facts they are going back. Sad

100/100/0/50 is you darkest measured color, and darker than ISO Coated 0/0/0/100 ... very wrong !
100/100/0/25 is still significantly darker than ISO 0/0/0/100 .... very wrong !
100/100/20/0 is also darker than 0/0/0/100 .... very wrong !

82/82/0/0 (violet) is as dark as the ISO Coated K=100 ... very wrong !
100/82/0/0 (violett-blue) is already darker than ISO K=100 ... very wrong !

near 115 of 994 ICC target patches are darker than absolute black 100/100/100/100 .... TOTALLY WRONG !!! Yell

and the King of all:
50/50/0/75 (darker soft-violet) is darker than ISO Coated K=100 ...... TOTALLY WRONG !!! Eek!

Good night !
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2015 05:07 PM by Mikulas.)
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Offline Pauly Posted 11-30-2015 - 05:00 PM
Post: #25
Frequent Flyer
109 Posts
Frequent Flyer

Onyx Version:
12.0
Printer(s):
Oce Arizona 480XT

Just to clear it up, my gamut size is good or bad?

My primary inks go to dark?


I did my own ink restrictions using a multi dot. By using the pantone CMYK reference cards i measured them with my spectro got the LAB readings and matched each ink colour with the corresponding readings. & by eye, they where very very close.
The ICC chart was a little lighter, not as dense as the rest.
Once all done, did a test print and it seemed as though it was a little more washed out than the usual prints.

To me, no matter how much i restrict the ink or increase the ink volume, overall i have the same/similar results.

Thanks again for your help, have a goodnight.
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