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A bug in X10

Offline Correct Color Posted 08-25-2010 - 12:13 PM
Post: #1
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128 Posts
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Onyx Version:
10
Printer(s):
Epson

http://correctcolor.org/cccommentary/?p=150
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Offline jonkovach Posted 08-25-2010 - 12:21 PM
Post: #2
Administrator
320 Posts
Administrator

Onyx Version:
X11
Printer(s):
HP z6100, Mimaki JV33-160, HP Latex 370

ha! A bug in X10.... as if there is only A bug.... a singular bug....! I have an infestation over here!!

• I have major lags in my machine's performance when working with files that I apply multiple color corrections to.
• I have files that look great in Preflight, but then print with pieces of letters missing.
- this is a known issues, and Onyx is working on it
• Since I upgraded, the lighter colors in my gamut have shifted ever so slightly, on all my printers.
• I am getting more VM errors than I ever received. I have also gotten virtual memory issues - both of these issues are resolvable by messing with the MALLOCPAGES setting.

However, I must say, I've talked with Onyx about these issues, and thus far they have been VERY helpful and VERY responsive. I have not been let down by their service.... but we'll see how long it takes to work all the bugs out.

Having three RIP engines is nice.

Wish I saw more of a performance boost in the overall speed of the program... but at least it's running at the same speed it was before!

That is my rant.
Jon

He who limps is still walking.
~Stanislaw J. Lec

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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 08-26-2010 - 12:24 AM
Post: #3
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222 Posts
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Onyx Version:
ALL
Printer(s):
ALL

(08-25-2010 12:13 PM)Correct Color Wrote:  http://correctcolor.org/cccommentary/?p=150

I have been testing X10 with HP Scitex printers (XP2750, XP5100) and didn't see the issue of the missing preview. Did you use the correct driver settings? There are multiple ways of creating those tiny png files.

Ciao!
Marco
(08-25-2010 12:21 PM)jonkovach Wrote:  ha! A bug in X10.... as if there is only A bug.... a singular bug....! I have an infestation over here!!

• I have major lags in my machine's performance when working with files that I apply multiple color corrections to.
• I have files that look great in Preflight, but then print with pieces of letters missing.
- this is a known issues, and Onyx is working on it
• Since I upgraded, the lighter colors in my gamut have shifted ever so slightly, on all my printers.
• I am getting more VM errors than I ever received. I have also gotten virtual memory issues - both of these issues are resolvable by messing with the MALLOCPAGES setting.

However, I must say, I've talked with Onyx about these issues, and thus far they have been VERY helpful and VERY responsive. I have not been let down by their service.... but we'll see how long it takes to work all the bugs out.

Having three RIP engines is nice.

Wish I saw more of a performance boost in the overall speed of the program... but at least it's running at the same speed it was before!

That is my rant.
Jon
\

Hi Jon,

Regarding that issue with the lighter colors: are you using Black Point Compensation in X10? (just out of curiosity ;-)).

And about the mallocpages settings: did you install on a PC where you already had a version 7 installed? In that case it might have take the settings from your previous setting.

I would try to make a clean install. I do that all the time and didn't see VM errors at all (and I have been using X10 in many different situations, with different printers, OS versions, OS language version etc.).

It would be great if more people share their issues with the group, this saves us a lot of time when visiting customers and trying to figure out what happens.

Ciao
Marco
(This post was last modified: 08-26-2010 12:28 AM by MarcoRoos.)
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Offline Nishan Posted 08-26-2010 - 01:02 AM
Post: #4
Member
12 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
7.3.2 c & X10
Printer(s):
Jeti,Latex,Mimaki, Durst Rho500r

(08-25-2010 12:13 PM)Correct Color Wrote:  http://correctcolor.org/cccommentary/?p=150

Hi ,

Yes , I also have 3 Jeti machines - and have the same problem. Only keyline is visible on the machine - no image. Prints fine though... fortunately I have the luxury of running V7 & V10 - so ripping thru V7 for the Jeti's , and ripping thru X10 for the latex / mimaki .

The problem I have now is that i have sent thru 50 copies of a print ( print jobs individually ) with Contour Cutter set to Mimaki. Printed fine EXCEPT only the first 10 copies printed the cut marks , the rest 40 copies did not print the cut marks.... Sad(((
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 08-26-2010 - 01:58 AM
Post: #5
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Onyx Version:
ALL
Printer(s):
ALL

(08-26-2010 01:02 AM)Nishan Wrote:  
(08-25-2010 12:13 PM)Correct Color Wrote:  http://correctcolor.org/cccommentary/?p=150

Hi ,

Yes , I also have 3 Jeti machines - and have the same problem. Only keyline is visible on the machine - no image. Prints fine though... fortunately I have the luxury of running V7 & V10 - so ripping thru V7 for the Jeti's , and ripping thru X10 for the latex / mimaki .

The problem I have now is that i have sent thru 50 copies of a print ( print jobs individually ) with Contour Cutter set to Mimaki. Printed fine EXCEPT only the first 10 copies printed the cut marks , the rest 40 copies did not print the cut marks.... Sad(((

Nish!!!

You're also here ;-).

Did you report those issues to ONYX?

I'll be in SA from Sign Africa till an open end. Please let me know if you need something. I'll in Jo'burg, CT and Pretoria.

Ciao!
Marco
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Offline Nishan Posted 08-26-2010 - 08:07 AM
Post: #6
Member
12 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
7.3.2 c & X10
Printer(s):
Jeti,Latex,Mimaki, Durst Rho500r

(08-26-2010 01:58 AM)MarcoRoos Wrote:  
(08-26-2010 01:02 AM)Nishan Wrote:  
(08-25-2010 12:13 PM)Correct Color Wrote:  http://correctcolor.org/cccommentary/?p=150

Hi ,

Yes , I also have 3 Jeti machines - and have the same problem. Only keyline is visible on the machine - no image. Prints fine though... fortunately I have the luxury of running V7 & V10 - so ripping thru V7 for the Jeti's , and ripping thru X10 for the latex / mimaki .

The problem I have now is that i have sent thru 50 copies of a print ( print jobs individually ) with Contour Cutter set to Mimaki. Printed fine EXCEPT only the first 10 copies printed the cut marks , the rest 40 copies did not print the cut marks.... Sad(((

Nish!!!

You're also here ;-).

Did you report those issues to ONYX?

I'll be in SA from Sign Africa till an open end. Please let me know if you need something. I'll in Jo'burg, CT and Pretoria.

Ciao!
Marco

Hey Marco ,

Yes u know our kind.... we are EVERYWHERE Smiley

I will be at Sign Africa... and will meet.

Do you have an email add for someone at onyx that will give me answers ??

Regards
Nesh
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Offline bryanmanwaring Posted 08-26-2010 - 01:29 PM
Post: #7
Onyx Graphics
79 Posts
Onyx Graphics

Onyx Version:
X10
Printer(s):
You pick! We've got lots of them!

All,

Thank you for the discussion and information. At ONYX we have been looking at these issues and working through them. A few of the issues are currently being worked through by Support and they are gathering the required information for Engineering to correct issues that are found.

One issue I'd like to comment on is the Jeti preview issue....

After looking at the problem, we have determined that there is an issue in the driver of the Jeti printers in how they create the preview image for those devices. From our testing of many grand format printers, we have not seen issues with preview images on any other devices. Typically, preview images are specific for individual printers as they each have their own requirements.

The problem is something that will be corrected in a driver update when it is ready. It should not require any changes to the product and applications.

What concerns me is the comment that this apparently affects other printers. We have not seen this to be the case. Are any of you aware of other printers affected by a similar problem? Any information you can provide would be extremely helpful. Obviously, this is not how we would want our drivers to behave!

Thanks again,
Bryan Manwaring
Product Planning and Architecture Manager
ONYX Graphics, Inc.
(This post was last modified: 08-26-2010 01:31 PM by bryanmanwaring.)
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Offline Nishan Posted 08-27-2010 - 01:05 AM
Post: #8
Member
12 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
7.3.2 c & X10
Printer(s):
Jeti,Latex,Mimaki, Durst Rho500r

Thanks Bryan ,

Await the updated drivers.

Regards
Nishan
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 08-27-2010 - 04:29 AM
Post: #9
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222 Posts
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Onyx Version:
ALL
Printer(s):
ALL

(08-26-2010 01:29 PM)bryanmanwaring Wrote:  All,

Thank you for the discussion and information. At ONYX we have been looking at these issues and working through them. A few of the issues are currently being worked through by Support and they are gathering the required information for Engineering to correct issues that are found.

One issue I'd like to comment on is the Jeti preview issue....

After looking at the problem, we have determined that there is an issue in the driver of the Jeti printers in how they create the preview image for those devices. From our testing of many grand format printers, we have not seen issues with preview images on any other devices. Typically, preview images are specific for individual printers as they each have their own requirements.

The problem is something that will be corrected in a driver update when it is ready. It should not require any changes to the product and applications.

What concerns me is the comment that this apparently affects other printers. We have not seen this to be the case. Are any of you aware of other printers affected by a similar problem? Any information you can provide would be extremely helpful. Obviously, this is not how we would want our drivers to behave!

Thanks again,
Bryan Manwaring
Product Planning and Architecture Manager
ONYX Graphics, Inc.

Hi Bryan,

I spent a week at HP, testing the XP series with X10. I haven't seen any issues with preview or whatsoever.

Ciao!
Marco

P.S. Great to have you reacting here ;-)
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Offline Correct Color Posted 08-27-2010 - 05:00 AM
Post: #10
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Onyx Version:
10
Printer(s):
Epson

Bryan,

If it only happens on Jetis, that's completely my bad for saying otherwise. That was the impression I got when I called this in, but maybe I just misunderstood.
(This post was last modified: 08-27-2010 05:01 AM by Correct Color.)
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 08-27-2010 - 05:22 AM
Post: #11
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Onyx Version:
ALL
Printer(s):
ALL

(08-27-2010 05:00 AM)Correct Color Wrote:  Bryan,

If it only happens on Jetis, that's completely my bad for saying otherwise. That was the impression I got when I called this in, but maybe I just misunderstood.

tsk tsk tsk ;-)

Bryan, I would ask Agfa to make sure. It seems there are different JetiSoft versions which need different compression types and XY resolutions.
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Offline bryanmanwaring Posted 08-27-2010 - 08:08 AM
Post: #12
Onyx Graphics
79 Posts
Onyx Graphics

Onyx Version:
X10
Printer(s):
You pick! We've got lots of them!

Thanks for the additional info everyone! I will pass that onto the driver team!
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Offline bryanmanwaring Posted 08-27-2010 - 09:45 AM
Post: #13
Onyx Graphics
79 Posts
Onyx Graphics

Onyx Version:
X10
Printer(s):
You pick! We've got lots of them!

I was just informed that we currently have a QA build of the Jeti drivers in testing. They have not yet been field proven to work properly, but if any of you are interested in testing them and helping us get this confidence, contact our tech support department and they can provide you access to the drivers.

Thanks,
Bryan
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 08-29-2010 - 11:15 PM
Post: #14
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Onyx Version:
ALL
Printer(s):
ALL

(08-27-2010 09:45 AM)bryanmanwaring Wrote:  I was just informed that we currently have a QA build of the Jeti drivers in testing. They have not yet been field proven to work properly, but if any of you are interested in testing them and helping us get this confidence, contact our tech support department and they can provide you access to the drivers.

Thanks,
Bryan

Yes please, give them to me, I am in South Africa next week at a couple of Jeti users.

Ciao!
Marco
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Offline Correct Color Posted 09-01-2010 - 06:34 AM
Post: #15
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128 Posts
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Onyx Version:
10
Printer(s):
Epson

Just to update, the guys at Onyx are being very responsive on this, but it's proving a tough nut to crack. I got new drivers for the 1224 and the 3150, and unfortunately, they did not resolve the issue.

At present, the guys from Onyx are working directly with my client to try and figure out a way to retrieve a job file from one of the machines so they can try and determine the problem that way--evidently a little more of an undertaking than you might think.

Not much to report from this point until this is resolved, I'm thinking.

But when it is, I'll post it here.
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Offline Scott Posted 09-04-2010 - 01:07 AM
Post: #16
OnyxTalk Admin
563 Posts
OnyxTalk Admin

Onyx Version:
N/A
Printer(s):
N/A

Thanks for the current and future updates, they are much appreciated.

Scott Manwaring / Administrator
OnyxTalk.com - Global Support Community
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Offline Ozprint Posted 09-16-2010 - 06:02 AM
Post: #17
Member
31 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
X10.2 (Testing Thrive)
Printer(s):
Epson 30600, 50600, 70600, T7000,250GT,350XT,550GT

Has anyone managed to get input profiles to work (engage) when sending PDF files that has elements with transparency layers enclosed?

Simple test;

Place PSD files with transparent backgrounds in an Indesign document.
Generate a PDF of recent vintage.
Send to the rip and watch it print.

Repeat the above with flattened PS files and view the colour difference.

Enjoy!
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Offline MarcoRoos Posted 09-16-2010 - 07:44 AM
Post: #18
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222 Posts
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Onyx Version:
ALL
Printer(s):
ALL

(09-16-2010 06:02 AM)Ozprint Wrote:  Has anyone managed to get input profiles to work (engage) when sending PDF files that has elements with transparency layers enclosed?

Simple test;

Place PSD files with transparent backgrounds in an Indesign document.
Generate a PDF of recent vintage.
Send to the rip and watch it print.

Repeat the above with flattened PS files and view the colour difference.

Enjoy!

Hi Ozprint,

This issue has been reported to ONYX extensively and they are working on it to get it fixed. It has been replicated and the cause is known.

Ciao
Marco
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Offline Ozprint Posted 09-29-2010 - 01:53 PM
Post: #19
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31 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
X10.2 (Testing Thrive)
Printer(s):
Epson 30600, 50600, 70600, T7000,250GT,350XT,550GT

(09-16-2010 07:44 AM)MarcoRoos Wrote:  Hi Ozprint,

This issue has been reported to ONYX extensively and they are working on it to get it fixed. It has been replicated and the cause is known.

Ciao
Marco

We are still waiting for a fix BUT this is a suggested method to overcome the issue;

Quote:I did some extensive testing and initially could not find a work around when placing or copying an image that contains transparency into a PDF document. The colour management would not apply no matter what I did or how I placed the image. I did find a workaround. Hopefully this will work for your customer. I used a mask in Illustrator and the element behaved as it should after that.

Here's how I did it. I loaded a TIF file with transparency into Photoshop. I filled up the transparent regions with pure white color. Saved it out. Then I created a document with some vector data. I placed the tif file into the image (without embedding). Next I created a path around the area I wanted to keep and then masked the rastered element. Finally outputted the file as a 1.7 PDF and it worked just fine.

Please let me know if this works for your customer or not. This workaround at least prevents them from having to flatten the image.

Just one more thing. In order for my suggestion to work, you do not want to use the Place option. Instead copy and paste from Photoshop into the Illustrator or InDesign. Then create the mask on the image copied. Placing the image does not work.

I let you all make your own conclusions from the above suggestion...
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2010 04:54 PM by Scott.)
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Offline Ozprint Posted 11-17-2010 - 01:41 AM
Post: #20
Member
31 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
X10.2 (Testing Thrive)
Printer(s):
Epson 30600, 50600, 70600, T7000,250GT,350XT,550GT

(09-29-2010 01:53 PM)Ozprint Wrote:  [quote='MarcoRoos' pid='3717' dateline='1284651864']

Hi Ozprint,

This issue has been reported to ONYX extensively and they are working on it to get it fixed. It has been replicated and the cause is known.

Ciao
Marco


Still no fix in sight!

Makes you wonder how deep seated the problem really is?

Think we can safely say that this is beyond a single bug and more like a true infestation.

What good is colour expertise when implementation fails so badly?

For the full knowledge of all bugs please continue your usage of Onyx but please tread with the utmost care as you may damage your customer base with some unpredictable print results ; )

Update to come...from Onyx...soon...
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Offline Gunther Posted 12-20-2010 - 10:34 PM
Post: #21
Member
81 Posts
Member

Onyx Version:
X10
Printer(s):
HP TJ8500,TJ8350,FB7500,XP5300,XL1500,9000s,Gandi

Hi to all of you !

Did I understood it right ?
Jeti- ONYX 7- no problems
Jeti- ONYX 10- no Preview file in the Machine GUI ???

I had the same issue end of october:

http://www.onyxtalk.com/thread-solved-x1...no+preview


Downloading the latest Jeti Printer Driver helped !!!!!

Gunther !
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